Angus Herd Talk
Discussions with Registered Angus Breeders across America about their operations, breeding philosophies and herd sires used in the past and present.
Angus Herd Talk
Shady Brook Angus Farm
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In this episode I talk with Vince Santini owner of Shady Brook Angus Farm and co-host of Around the Chute podcast. We discuss his own podcast, Shady Brook and his upcoming sale.
Welcome to Angus Her Talk. Before I jump into this episode, I want to address something. Many of you who listen to this podcast notice it disappeared from the podcast hosting apps over the last few months. My intentions were to kill the show, and in actuality, I had done so. 2025 was a struggle for my family and I. Last April, our youngest son died at age 14 unexpectedly. Then we followed that with the Angus Association getting in bed with Jeff Bezos, board members being re-elected. I had a very lackluster calf crop as far as the bulls were concerned. My give a damn was getting worn out. I found myself in a place of apathy for the industry, and I wasn't having fun with the podcast any longer. Many of you reached out to me with kind words over the last few months, and I thank you for doing so. After discussions with close friends, prayer, and taking some time to get my head right, I've decided to keep on keeping on. So enjoy this episode. I think it's a good one, and I'm gonna do a whole bunch more. On this episode of Angus Her Talk, we're talking with Vince Santini, former co-host of the Angus Underground, current co-host of Around the Shoot Podcast, and owner of Shady Brook Angus Farm. Welcome to the show, Vince. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Does it feel a little different being the guest, not the host? A little anxious? Are you anxious at all? No, not really. Pretty good friends. Over the years, you and I have gotten to know each other. There's been a couple times we have great conversations. We should have just hit record. Oh, yeah. Would have made a great podcast. All right. So let's start with your podcast career. Okay. How did that get going? How did you become a co-host on not just one show, but two shows?
SPEAKER_01Well, I would say one day I was talking to David Brown, and I had said something about we need to make a not necessarily he and I, but we need to make a podcast about cow stuff, and he kind of leaked it that they were already in the works once one. And I kind of I guess through our friendship, I was kind of in the loop with it, and we talked about it on and off, on and off, and and then he had asked me to I'd actually set in and just watched on a few of them, didn't, you know, with my mic off, but uh he had asked actually asked me to come on the show and did one about Shady Brooke, and then he a few month a month or so later he asked me to come back on, and then he asked me to come back on, and just kind of went from there. And and then that's how I got to meet Joe Fisher and Corbin Mihoffee, and then we ended up just kind of doing our own thing about two or three years later. Did you not know Joe before that? No, I never talked to him, no. Oh, okay. Or nor Corbin. I didn't know Corbin either.
SPEAKER_02All right.
SPEAKER_01So just kind of how it went.
SPEAKER_02Alright. And then you started your own podcast?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02With with those two guys. You join it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Fun? Yeah, we have a big time. We try to. I listen to it. It's fun, it's a fun show. Yeah, I sure do. Oh man. Yeah. Gotta actually listen to professional podcasts on occasion. This amateur level deal, yeah. You do a great job interviewing folks. Thank you very much. What do you like about doing the podcast?
SPEAKER_01My th I just like helping folks. And if if we can every once in a while enlighten somebody or give them a good idea or give them get them just to thinking and looking at stuff differently, then I feel like we've achieved some achieved something. And of course, you know, I like the guys that we do it with. We're all good friends, and you know, we can have a good time doing it, and hopefully somebody gleans something from it every now and again.
SPEAKER_02On occasion. On occasion. Yeah. Some good food tips. Travel. We had travel a couple months ago with Joe going across Italy. I'm gonna give a little insight to some of my listeners here. Your podcast is well, actually, not your podcast, your sale and the underground are what laid the found the foundation for this podcast. Really? I was in the house.
SPEAKER_01I was trying to ask you how you got started.
SPEAKER_02You want to hear the story? Yeah. Okay, so I went to went to your production sale. I want to say this 2023, maybe 22. And I went to your production sale, and I got a long trip home from your place. It probably takes about two hours across 64. I put on the underground. I put the underground on that night. You guys had interviewed Bud Copel. I don't remember if you were on that show or not.
SPEAKER_01I was not.
SPEAKER_02I listened to it. I got across the river and I the show was over. And the first thing it did is they called Joe Fisher. Called Joe up and said, you know, because you got to critique him. And I said to him, I said, hey, you know, I listened to Copel interviewer, and he's like, he's like, well, what'd you think of it? And I said, it was okay. Except for when you guys all started having bigger dick contests, and one just shut up and listened to the person that you're interviewing. Exactly. And he says to me, he says to me, Joe says to me, if you think you can do better, have your own show. Well, there you go. So boom. Boom. Here we are. Yeah. And guess who my first guest was?
SPEAKER_01Hey, Bud Cobble. Joe Fisher. Oh, I remember that. I do remember that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I drove Joe Fisher rod. So that's how this show started, and Joe ended up being my first guest.
SPEAKER_01I'd be honest, I didn't realize that Joe was your first guest. I listened to that episode, but I did not realize that was your very first one.
SPEAKER_02So it's time to talk a little about Shady Broad. Okay. We need a little history lesson. When you and I talked about this at one point in time, you really wasn't sure about digging into this thing, but you guys got deep history. That goes back to 1980s when the first foundation of it, your your father. Sorry, I can't remember your father's first name. Tony. Tony. Tony started the program back in 1980.
SPEAKER_01Is that not just a common Italian name? You couldn't remember that one?
SPEAKER_02Is it Anthony?
SPEAKER_01It's like everybody's named Tony. Antonio is what it was.
SPEAKER_02Is it Antonio?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I guess I don't know a lot of Italians.
SPEAKER_01Well, that's my middle name, too, so now you know.
SPEAKER_02Well, I come from Western Washington where we don't have a lot of Italians. We have your your other race, a lot of Mexicans.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. You know why they're all called Tony?
SPEAKER_02How come?
SPEAKER_01Because when they were on the boat coming over to New York, they they put T-O-N-Y on all their foreheads. Really? So everybody called them Tony. Why'd they do that? I'm just kidding. To New York. T-O-N-Y, to New York. Oh, G D R. It's a joke. It's a joke. Come on, man.
SPEAKER_02No, that's actually a good one. Unfortunately, right over my head. Right over my head. Anyway, go ahead. So give us the history lesson. So we start in 1980, Shady Brooke gets found, gets formed. Did your dads buy land and immediately go into the register deal, or was that kind of So you gotta take it back to 73.
SPEAKER_01They had a little farm, and it was probably just Santini cattle or something like that. He and mom had a little farm out in Deerfield, which is west of Lawrenceburg, just a little bit, maybe 10 minutes. And they had bought like 13 Angus cows. Well, they all had lepto, so you had to ship all them and start again. And in the beginning, you know how all these calves come out and they have a little umbilical cord, you know, and a little bit of a navel. Well, he thought they they thought they were all bulls for a long time. And they they finally figured out that they were not all bullshit. And anyway, they kind of grew from there, and I think what really started it was, you know, he was kind of buddies with all the guys in town that they used to get together for coffee, you know. And when he had bought those few cows, one of his so-called friends had made the comment, what does that WAP know about cows? Oh. And it really pissed him off, and he wanted to show him, so he ended up buying Shady Brooke and started collecting some of the best cows in the country. Was Shady Brooke called Shady Brook when he bought it? No, they actually, I don't know if you remember, do you remember Jim Hinton? J.O. Hinton? No.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_01Anyway, him and Joe Bill Ming out of Kentucky. Jim Hinton was out of Tennessee. They were all friends, they had all become friends, and uh Jim Hinton had made the comment one night, they were sitting around at dinner, that he ought to call it Shady Brook because of the creek and all that stuff. So I'd also heard a different story that somebody else had come up with the name, but the the I was always told that Jim Hinton had come up.
SPEAKER_02He kind of pieced some land together.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then your dad, your dad, the WAP, with with that offense, he jumped in, he jumped in big time because he started what 1980 was when he did the register. And within one year he purchased a little known bull, a little used bull named Pine Drive Big Sky.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, he's in.
SPEAKER_02So he jumped in both both feet. Yeah. Pine Drive Big Sky, for those that don't know, big foundation bull for for the herd.
SPEAKER_01He's in a lot of people just look back.
SPEAKER_0220,000 recorded progeny. Which isn't the highest, but that's up there. Most bulls nowadays won't even sniff that number. But the craziest number, just remember this, 23,000 recorded progeny. 12,000 of those were milking daughters. Really? 12,000. So that means over half the progeny listed were daughters, and they went on to be cows. Yeah. Recorded cows. Nowadays we get growth fund who has like 18,000 recorded progeny, 3,000 recorded working mothers. I don't know. I don't know I'm giving you actual numbers. And so you got that, and you got this Pine Drive who, if you look at the numbers and the 50-50%, almost every single one of his daughters that got registered worked.
SPEAKER_01That's crazy.
SPEAKER_02Went into the working herd. That's actually incredibly amazing. It really so then the first production sale I read this went to 1987. That was the very first production sale. And then shortly after actually before that, the year before that, going through my notes, your dad purchased Sitz Everelda Intense 1137. That was in 1986. The fun fact on that one, so for somebody you and I both know, Crothmull, one of his foundation cows, was actually I think you're about 10 years off on that.
SPEAKER_01Am I off on that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_011986? I think he was in the 90s. 90s.
SPEAKER_02No, no. Nope, nope. No uh because her famous son wasn't born until 1990. Okay, maybe I'm wrong. They bought her in 1986. One of Crothmull's foundation cows was a direct granddaughter out of her on the maternal line. Intense 1137 is the damn to sis traveler 8180.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_028180. 8180 was born in 1990.
SPEAKER_01She's a damned a lot of stuff. Is she? Yeah. Well, I mean, you got you got oh you got 043, you had 491G, you had oh I think it was O twenty three, a cow. There was several bulls, I think maybe five five five two or something. I think he was a 124, 1137. There were several progeny. O twenty-three, if I'm recalling correctly, if that's her number, she was kind of a big deal. I could be off on that.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Alright. So you got the 8180 bull. And then in 2000, your old man he purchased his son 004. Yeah. Yeah. Bree changer.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02Talk about that bull, because I know that you still use him.
SPEAKER_01The funny story about that bull, so Charlie Boyd bred that bull. And he had sold, he had sold the mother in the sale bread with 004 in her belly. And 507D. No. 800.
SPEAKER_02Oh, is it was it 507D?
SPEAKER_01No, 8003 was a new trend 507 D. Um sorry. High Field Angus in New York had bought her. And they had calved him out and sold him in the sale. And Dad had actually it was him, Phil Trowbridge, Charlie Boyd, Kelly Schaaf, and Leon Heron at KMK Acres. And when they bought him, do you know what his given name was? It was Highfield Day Ahead 004. And then Kelly got walking rights and got his name changed. And anyway, Gen X picked him up and years later he started getting checks. And Dad's told mom, like the first check was like $20,000. And that's what they gave for the whole bull. Um, and that was just dad's check, and he called, he told mom to send the check back that he didn't own that bull. And he said, hang on a minute. And he called he called Trowbridge, and uh Trowbridge said, Yeah, that was that bull we bought up there. And he was like, Oh wow. Yeah, he he's he's I would call him as a very highly influenced, influential bull.
SPEAKER_02The sire of sires.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02If I remember right, I think he had the first million dollars sale of progeny, I believe. Really? Yeah, I think so. I think when that Densney Net Worth sale, I think that whole group went for a million dollars, which back then was astounding. Wow. All his progeny, I think, went for a million, if I remember correctly. Wow. He had over 25,000 recorded progeny and 10,000 milk and daughters. There's another bowl that your father owned, went to Gen X as well, and that was Boyd New Day.
SPEAKER_01Yep. I've actually got calves on the ground by him right now. Do you really? Okay. I really don't know the story on him. I just know that we had owned him and I got semen on him.
SPEAKER_02Now that was 57D, right?
SPEAKER_01Yes, that was a new trend 57D. So that was 004, 004's mother and New Day were full sibs. They were flush mates. So you got the 8180 on top with the 1137 in it, and on the bottom you got 57D in it. So it's all wrapped up in one pedigree.
SPEAKER_028180 may have the most grandchildren. Really?
SPEAKER_01That's crazy.
SPEAKER_02Well, think about it. Final answer.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Final answer at what, close to 40,000?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I don't know. It's a lot.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. It's like 40,000 progeny for him. So you think of him, you got double four and then new new day. That's just a massive amount. Oh, yeah. But you know, he the new day new day was a new trend.
SPEAKER_01Correct. Correct.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So he wouldn't be in there.
SPEAKER_01180 himself. I mean, you got two sons there, but then you got himself, you know. That's crazy good. So you got some new days down on the ground? I do. I do. He's a heifer bull, so sometimes if I'm looking for something different, I'll breed some commercial cows to him because I got a ton of semen on him. Do you? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Back in the day, I did breed to him. Yeah. And he phenomenal females. Great. Oh, yeah. The bulls were kind of.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I never got a good one. For some reason, Gardner Danal made a great one that game day bull. But man, every bull I got out of him was just. The heifers were phenomenal.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they go on to be great cows.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So any any other bulls of note that your father purchased over that time?
SPEAKER_01Not nothing that comes to the top of my head, no.
SPEAKER_02The cows is kind of a mind-bending list. Oh, yeah. He bought precisions, damn, the 9J9 cow, and I think some of the famous Henrietta's, I believe. 501 over the years.
SPEAKER_01614.
SPEAKER_02It's a little mind-bending after a while trying to pick all those out. And then your dad dispersed the final time. Which time? Because there's like four dispersals. I think there's four dispersals in there somewhere. But in 2003, I think he finally gave up and dispersed. He dispersed it and gave it up.
SPEAKER_01He dispersed in 2003. And after that dispersal, we still had about 700 head here. And Mountain Meadows in Montana came and bought the whole herd private tree. And then after that, I don't think they lasted very long. We were we were kind of hanging out here with no cows on the ranch for oh god. So two, three years. At least two years. And uh we just kind of decided to start start back again.
SPEAKER_02Be free, move on there. Going back to your dad's circuit, what do you think the hurt the head count was at its peak?
SPEAKER_01I was told eleven hundred at its peak. 1100? Yeah, at its peak.
SPEAKER_02Did he have a production sale every single year off the phone there?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay. How did those go? Pretty well or was it typical Tennessee deal?
SPEAKER_01No, no, they went they went very well. We would always sell the last Monday in October and the barn would be packed on a Monday night.
SPEAKER_02So the bulls did they sell well?
SPEAKER_01That I don't I'm not sure about because I know for a while they would be sold at Wiening. Okay. Um and then you know it was just multiple things here and there, and then we would always sell a few off the farm. I don't, you know, it's a typical Tennessee stigma.
SPEAKER_02The Tennessee bull market was just as bad then as it is now?
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_02Actually, it's kind of upticked now. When I moved here five years ago, this bull market was absolutely atrocious. Horrible.
SPEAKER_01Horrible still makes me nervous.
SPEAKER_02I looked at one year sale reports, I think it was from 2021. Your average on the bulls is only 35 dollars. Terrible. Yeah. Can't even raise them for that. No. No, that's ridiculously bad. In 2013, Vince and Amy purchased Shady Brooke. Yep. Was that the entirety?
SPEAKER_01Yep. Land, cattle, equipment, everything.
SPEAKER_02There was field cattle around?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. We started buying cattle back in 05 again.
SPEAKER_02For yourself?
SPEAKER_01Uh for your dad? No, me and dad together.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01So that that was an opportunity that he and I could work together. Before there was always a manager involved, and then when we started, it was just he and I.
SPEAKER_02So when you your dad started purchasing, and obviously that you had to end up buying the whole rest of those out from your dad. Where'd you guys start putting that herd back together?
SPEAKER_01Um, so he you know, I don't know if you know Lamont Ennis when he left here. I think he ran Southern Cattle Company for a long time. I've heard Southern. Lamont had left here, he was the last manager that we had, and the dad had told him there was golly, I can't remember the name of the place, and I want to think maybe they were in Kansas. They were having a dispersal, and I think we ended up buying like 60 head out of there, and then we ended up there was another guy in New York. Golly, I can't remember his name either. Um, Andalina in New York, and I think we got about 30 head out of there, and then we went up to Columbia, Tennessee. They were having just a commercial redhead for sale, and we ended up buying like 60 out of there. So we just kind of grew back that way, and then he had kind of picked out a donor here and a donor there. Of course, you know, back then you had to go to Gardeners to get something, so we had gone and found uh 810 daughter. Back then she was the you know, you had to have a 1407, 810 daughter back then, so we went and got one.
SPEAKER_02D facts.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Lots of defects.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. She had both of them.
SPEAKER_02Well, you mentioned those two balls, like yeah. That had to be a double down.
SPEAKER_01No, it wasn't because of him, it was all because of her and precision.
SPEAKER_021407 was not free either.
SPEAKER_01Oh, was he not? He wasn't free of uh waterhead and and curly cat?
SPEAKER_02He was a carrier. Really?
SPEAKER_01Oh wow. Yeah. Well, she had both of them.
SPEAKER_021407 comes out of the out of the 036 bowl.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. No. Yeah. Was he? No, I don't think so. I think he was.
SPEAKER_02Was he? Yeah. And 036 was uh was a carrier.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I knew 036 was a carrier.
SPEAKER_02Now you're now you're making me look the same. I think my maybe my stroke brand is like affecting me. Yeah, he was an 036.
SPEAKER_01I was thinking he was something else.
SPEAKER_02And and what really helped him was he had uh Gardner on the bottom line as well. Well, it is really I know that because I got to take some to the sale barn back in two thousand eight.
SPEAKER_01You know, the crappy part about all that is is the way it was all handled, honestly.
SPEAKER_02That was horrible.
SPEAKER_01It was kind of like the COVID deal, right? Everybody didn't know any nobody knew what to do, and everybody kind of freaked out. I I knew of uh lots of local breeders, you know, that were just small breeders. They might have fifteen cows or something. They were just loading them up and taking them to town. They weren't even testing them. They were just like, No, they're gonna have it.
SPEAKER_02That's what I did. I wasn't concerned about them having it. I just didn't want that stigma in my herd. I was a small guy, 30 head. There was no reason to have that stigma around me. I didn't have to worry about it. Just get it out. Right. My concern was they may test clean, but someone will see it in the pedigree.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but like now it doesn't bother anybody. Doesn't bother me.
SPEAKER_02Not now. Yeah. Because we're past that. Right, right. 2010. And you're trying to sell a bull and the guy looks down and sees that the dam came out of 1407 and he knows that 1407 is a carry on. Oh, yeah. You're gonna have to fight that stigma. I just didn't want to do it. It's too easy to go out and get clean cows. Right.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_02You guys putting that herd together, if you had to do it over again, anything you do differently? Probably listen to your old man a little more?
SPEAKER_01No, I listen to him every step of the way. I don't know. I mean, I would say I would wouldn't buy this cow or that cow, but because of the carrier, but hell, nobody knew about it until so it's not fair to them. I mean, they did a decent job. Yeah, I don't I don't know what I would do different, honestly. All right, well, that's a good answer. You like the cows. Well, I mean, I'm not saying they're all perfect, but I mean, we definitely made money with some cheap cows and lost money with some expensive cows, but you know, that's just part of it. I was wondering.
SPEAKER_02I talk to people all the time, and sometimes you ask them about, you know, those original purchases. Right. They kind of think, Emma, I wish I gone a little different direction. I mean, maybe not so big, or maybe not so small. Right. You know, maybe pay attention to the pedigrees, wouldn't it have the foot and other issues we had. Right. All right, Vince, I know this about you. You like your cows like Thomas Wimbush likes his beer. Big. Big. Big. What are these cows? A six frame, seven frame, eight frame? What what do we got over there, Vince?
SPEAKER_01They're they're not quite as big as I would have liked them to be. I'm actually trying to put a little bit of frame back into them.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01They've uh they've kind of moderated themselves through bull selection over the last few years, and not intentionally, but just kind of did.
SPEAKER_02Do you think some of that might be environment as well? But you hear like down the south that they'll moderate themselves down just because of environment.
SPEAKER_01Yes and no. I mean, the reason why I say yes and no is yeah, maybe a little bit, but I mean, we always had big cows before, and they didn't I mean it's the same environment. Oh, okay. So no, I think a lot of it is just changing, you know, used bulls you might or not have should have used or kind of followed some trends before I started thinking for my own things like that.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Well, jump on that.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know, you know how it is. I mean, you the the thought process is oh, you gotta use this bull if you want people to pay attention to your program.
SPEAKER_02And we gotta dig into that. I asked you earlier about the cow selection. Do you wish you'd done the things a little differently? And he said, No, no, no, it was all good. But now you're saying now we'll go to the bullshit. Oh, I mean I said I don't know. I've used some sires. Do you regret using some of these sire choices that you've used?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I mean, I guess yeah, some I mean, yeah, at some point we all do here and there. I couldn't give you a list of who. I mean, I don't really remember.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I hear it. I've resented some of my most recent ones a lot.
SPEAKER_01And the last I tell you what, you know, you were talking earlier about the podcast stuff. That's one thing that that Joe and and David and Corbin uh helped me do is have confidence in my own stuff.
SPEAKER_02There you go.
SPEAKER_01And they just, you know, were Corbin and Joe and I are always talking about our, you know, this bull and that bull, and I guess I dig a little deeper now as to which bull is right for me, instead of, oh, that's the new, you know, flavor of the month. Which, you know, back then you kind of thought you needed to do it, and and now I I know I don't have to do that. You know. Yeah. If you do that, you're just like everybody else. You know, what's what's there's two or three places off the top of my head that are just like they're just alike and they're spread all over the country, but they they breed identical. They have the same cows, they have use the same sires, and I mean I don't know that that makes them any different than anybody else, does it?
SPEAKER_02Like you said, with your friends, it's good to have like-minded friends that have the same breeding. You gotta have a tight circle. This year, Joe and Corey and I were bantering about a bull. They think that Joe was looking to sell, and you know, one of the things Corey just kept pounding in this group text was like, keep your own shit. Yeah, keep your own stuff, man. And uh it got in my head, and then Joe and I talked, and so this year I have a pretty darn good bull. I'm gonna have to keep him back. Are you? Good. Yeah. And that's kind of exciting to be able to see he's a Cherokee son.
SPEAKER_01Oh, really? From uh Albricks?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, out of Albricks. And he's on the bottom side, he's a Dixie Erica. So you had a couple Dixie Ericas out of Montana Ranch.
SPEAKER_01Only one I had.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay. She was actually not a full sib, but a maternal sib to her. Okay. She's out of the two cows that Joe owned for a little bit. Okay. He owned her for like 15 minutes for a killer. Yeah, I owned that cow for 15 minutes. Yeah, yep. He got like four embryos out of her, and that was it. Boom. Dead. I got him, and and I was like, man, that's my favorite cow. It's my best cow. And the cool thing I'm excited about is in about two years, I'm gonna have these heifers that have prefix of Creek Creek. There you go. And that's what you have, is you you have Shady Brook, Shady Brook. Yeah. Pretty cool to see within your own herd.
SPEAKER_01So that years ago when we first started, my my goal was to get, you know, that first generation Shady Brook. When I'm when I'm selling some, you know, the dam needs to be a Shady Brook Dam, and then you know, and then it kind of went on to the next step. Well then you want two generations Shady Brook, and now my goal is to have on top and bottom, you know, but that's hard I I think that's a little harder. It seems like it's a little easier to for sale ability to have some other things on for a sire, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02I don't know if you remember this, but when we first met, you told me one of your goals that you really wanted to achieve was not to have any more donors. Yeah. That your whole herd be so good that yeah, there would be no reason to have to do that.
SPEAKER_01I'm still trying to achieve that.
SPEAKER_02I think everybody is.
SPEAKER_01I'm I I will say this, I have probably have fewer donors now than I I have in a long time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Less outliers. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Less outliers, more consistent.
SPEAKER_01But then I turned around like yesterday and I saw this cow and I was like, gosh, she's gotta be my next donor.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So Well, it's nice to proliferate, you know, at once.
SPEAKER_01I don't know if you can ever just get totally away from it when you find that cow that gets you so fired up that you want a multiplier or mass producer or whatever. But I do I put eggs in a lot of good cows. Like I really do. And I shouldn't, but I just look at it and be like, okay, is this cow's natural calf gonna be more valuable than this embryo calf? You know, so that's kind of how I weigh it out.
SPEAKER_02I think a lot of people on our breeding, they skip over quality brood cows chasing the embryos. Yes. And they need to recognize that animal's got a pedigree. That pedigree is built on something. Right. If people would just stick with breeding their cattle to solid sires, they'll be shocked at what they pull out of that. Absolutely be shocked. Don't don't pay attention to EPDs. Look at that pedigree, breed, and they'll be absolutely shocked at what they pull out of that calories.
SPEAKER_01And I guess one thing I would try to say is not don't don't automatically discard, because I was really bad about this. I would automatically discard or think less of an animal because it was out of one of my herd bulls. And in fact, they may end up going on to be a better animal long term than some of these others, but we don't give them a fair shake. A lot of people don't do that, they don't give them a fair shake.
SPEAKER_02Example, the this herdbull that I'm gonna keep back, this Cherokee sign. Look into his pedigree. Within the first four dams, yeah, each one of them is a noted dam. Yeah, yeah. We're talking about dams that were dams of dams. Right. 00754136 is in there. Right. This Forever Lady that the Cherokee's out of, she's in there, she's a dam of note as well. But when you see that in it, that's worth it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Start stacking those cows in there. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Start stacking them up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I like doing that.
SPEAKER_02So what's your breeding philosophy now?
SPEAKER_01Just you've learned some things, keep stacking good cows in there.
SPEAKER_02But what about the bulls? What what do they gotta be? What do they gotta be for you to use them as anything?
SPEAKER_01A number one, they gotta be good footed.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um You're tough on feet. You're really tough on feet. I am, but I and I think my environment has makes me be tough on feet. And I still don't always get it right, right? I mean you use this bull that's supposed to be a good footed bull on a cow that's never give you any trouble, and sometimes you get bad feet.
SPEAKER_02Do you think it's environment or is it I think genetics?
SPEAKER_01Both. Both I think some of it is environment and I think some of it is genetics.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01You know, Tennessee we're wet a lot. All summer it's hot. They're standing in the creek all summer, all winter they're in mud. So, you know, they're not, you know, even in the summer when the dew falls, they start walking around in grass and soft ground and you know, pasture size 35 acres. Well, that's very much walking.
SPEAKER_02Over there in Middle Tennessee, do you guys have a lot of rock?
SPEAKER_01We have rock, yes, but it's also a lot of mud.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01I don't have that that flat limestone rock that sticks out of the ground. No, I don't have that. I have like just rocks.
SPEAKER_02Just rocks.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like chert rocks. Do you have chert over there?
SPEAKER_02No, we don't have rocks at all. No, you drill down to the center of the earth from here and never hit a rock.
SPEAKER_01Golly.
SPEAKER_02But our ground here, what I found is my cows will be a little tender footed like in August. Because it's like clay. Yeah. And it just gets rock hard. But it wears off their feet really well. I don't have the foot problems here like I did back home in Washington. Right. Washington, it was it'd rain eight eight to nine months out of the year, and they'd be buried up to the brisket out there. You'd have to go hook them up sometime and wench them out. Right. Forklift them out of the mud. But here, it's more like dog poop. You can get his four-wheel drive pickup stuck out in your yard and only go in the ground like one inch.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Just sit there and spin. Spin, spin, spin. But then when you go to dig dig a hole, man, you never see a rock.
SPEAKER_01Well, that must be nice.
SPEAKER_02No, because the ground's still.
SPEAKER_01You're just chip tripping over them over here.
SPEAKER_02Thomas Wimbush calls our our ground dirt. It's not soil. Well, there's actually no nutritional value to this ground whatsoever. Really? Yeah, it sucks. The topsoil is pretty weak out here. But then you get west of us, maybe about 20, 30 miles west of us. Yeah. Then you get into the delta.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Now there you literally can drill to the center of the earth and overhead rock. They got that nice dark, dark soil. Yeah. They can grow crops like a son of a gun out there. We gotta go back to your bull choice. How does the bull make your uh cyber battery?
SPEAKER_01Um has to have good feet, eye appeal, you know, then you can start and and pedigree that'll work, and then you can start, you know, hey, how about a scrotal? How about this? How about that? And then you start checking all those boxes, then you can start diving into some of the EPDs. Is is this okay, is that okay? But he's gotta jump through a lot of hoops before we even get to the EPD part for me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I don't always get it right. I mean, you know, you know how that is. Sometimes you get you you you see, you know, you can make your assumptions and you can make your decisions with your eyes and with what you see and and talk to friends and and get different people's opinions, and then sometimes you breed cows and then before you even have a calf, well, you know what, we just saw a whole bunch of calves over here and they're terrible, or you saw this and they're having these problems, or you saw that, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it can happen. Especially with young unproven bulls. I think I think that I try to keep older proven bulls as the main focus, and then, you know, I'll sprinkle in some younger unproven bulls.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna pat you in the back.
SPEAKER_01Why?
SPEAKER_02I'd have to get up on a step stool to do that, though. I think you're actually the coolest breeder in the entire country. And there I really do. And the reason I say this is how many Emblazon sons did you have in the sale last year?
SPEAKER_01Six.
SPEAKER_02Who breeds to Emblazon 2006?
SPEAKER_01Do you know how many I have on the ground right now? How many got? How many got four?
SPEAKER_02Four? I keep trying to get that heifer and they're coming out on all bulls. It is so cool. You'll show up at Shade Brook Sale, and for people that don't follow your program, and they should have by now with a podcast, two podcasts. If they haven't followed your program, you have some of the coolest crap in your sale. You'll have double O four sons, you'll have emblazons. You can't go to any other sale and see this stuff. What is it? One year, I think you had a 2304 son one time, didn't you?
SPEAKER_01I don't no, I don't think so.
SPEAKER_02You sold a daughter out of 2304? You sold you sold something out of 20 at a QAS Traveler one time.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I have, yeah, you a few years back. I sold some 124 daughters not too long ago.
SPEAKER_02When you sold like a 2304, I think it's the QAS traveler bowl. 234, right?
SPEAKER_01234, then you had 23-4.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that one 23-4 is is one I almost cracked my pants when it's not in the in the catalog.
SPEAKER_00And I still have the semen too. Who does that?
SPEAKER_02And I just want people to know that you're kind of hurtful. Because I've called you a couple times about some cool old semen, and the answer is oh, yeah, I don't I I probably don't have any of that. Then I see it in the catalog two years later.
SPEAKER_01Well, I maybe not have a lot of it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I I see here's I've got some in blazon semen, but it ain't but about three or four straws.
SPEAKER_02Who else is on the books next year besides a blazon?
SPEAKER_01Oh goodness. That's a good cra that's a really good question. Blue Blood, which is a bull that we own with ZWT.
SPEAKER_02But he's not ancient. No, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_01Old bulls.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm talking about the stuff where you're scraping the bottom of the tank.
SPEAKER_01That's probably about it, honestly.
SPEAKER_02You're probably digging out the straws that David Brown dropped at the bottom of the tank.
SPEAKER_01Years ago. Years ago.
SPEAKER_02Years ago, and pulling pulling those out and using them.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01No, I would say emblazon's probably about the that's it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So since we're kind of talking about the bulls, is the bulls, yes.
SPEAKER_01But now I do have some EXT females.
SPEAKER_02Do you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You're gonna sell them? You're not gonna sell those. No, no, I don't plan on it. No, you're not going to. Alright. So who you got these EXT daughters coming up? Who is Vince Santina getting to breed these two?
SPEAKER_01You know the glory, the glory of that is. I've got a whole year to think about it. Probably the newest hottest bull out there that day. Do you believe that?
SPEAKER_02I don't believe that at all. I just so you know, last year at the West Tennessee sale, that the cut consignment sale. And it's been a pretty solid sale the last couple years. Patterson Freeman's done a good job of putting that thing together. I actually saw Jason there. Jason Meeting, yeah, Meeting was there. And they had an 878 daughter go through that sale.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I think the minute the auctioneer opened, and it was ice gone.
SPEAKER_00He just left it up.
SPEAKER_02I just left it up.
SPEAKER_00You bet against yourself 12 times. Yeah, I'm like standing up waving.
SPEAKER_02Don't forget me, don't let it. So I brought her home. I brought her home. My wife's like, what are you gonna do with that thing? And and uh she's like, ancient pedigree, people aren't gonna like that. And I said, I don't care if people like that. Right. I like when I when I breed her, I'm gonna breed her something, something cool. So there's some right time in her now. Not S right time. Oh. We're going way back. Nice. Yeah, Jam's right time in the tour. Yeah. We're not screwing that up. We're going way back. Since we're talking about next year's sale and what you got going on, this year they got the eighth annual Shady Brook dispersal sale going on.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01I tell you what, it it's closer than you know. It's closer than you know.
SPEAKER_02It's on April 11th. Let's jump into some of these bulls, but once again, I gotta pat your back a little bit again for a little moment of levity.
SPEAKER_01You're gonna make the big head stop it.
SPEAKER_02Uh, can your head get any bigger than that?
SPEAKER_01My body Listen, Amy always tells me I've got a huge body and a tiny head. So yeah, it's got room to grow.
SPEAKER_02I believe if you if you wore this hat, this Crawford hat I'm wearing right now, you go last button, don't you?
SPEAKER_01No. I'm about halfway.
SPEAKER_02Oh, really? I thought it'd be bigger than that.
SPEAKER_01Nope, got a tiny head.
SPEAKER_02No, I got a tiny head.
SPEAKER_01I learned that. Well, maybe he gave you a children's hat.
SPEAKER_02What's that?
SPEAKER_01Maybe he gave you a children's hat.
SPEAKER_02You probably did. I didn't think of that. He probably had a special custom made. I've told you this before. I gotta brag on you a little bit. Um I go to sales across country, and uh I honestly believe that your bowls are the biggest bargain in this country. I mean in the entire country.
SPEAKER_01Well, I don't know if I should say I appreciate that or be embarrassed that they're the biggest bargain in the country.
SPEAKER_02Both. I've discussed this before. Yes. I think if you had them, if your sale was a little earlier in this season, I think you sell them for a little bit higher. But you have it when you have it for a reason. But your bull offering, I believe, is like one of the biggest bargains out there, and it's not a Kmart type thing. This is buying off cell rack at Nordstrom's. At Nordstroms. I'll put that together. Nordstroms. Because you do a phenomenal job of raising them. You're hard on them. You and I talk quite a bit about how you're raising them, and we'll talk about a bull, and you will say I'll be lot 68. Yeah, I knocked him out, his feet suck.
SPEAKER_01Two right now they're going because of that.
SPEAKER_02You just keep calling them, calling them, calling them all the way to sale day. And you've even cold them the day of the sale or even on the way of the truck before.
SPEAKER_01I've cold them on the way of the truck before, that's right.
SPEAKER_02Most guys will not do that. So you never sell an unsound one.
SPEAKER_01I try not to. That doesn't mean that it can't go bad after they leave here.
SPEAKER_02But you'll make it good.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_02You make it good. And like I said, you do some really cool matings. And these bulls, the vast majority of the bulls that are gonna be in this cell this year, they're out of your donor pen.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02These are out of your donor pan. This isn't the bottom end of the brood cows. This these are out of the donor pan. And I honestly hope people listen to this. This is a sale to pay attention to. If you need a bowl, because one went down that you bought two weeks ago out in Missouri. If that bull went to crap, this is the one to go go get them. Matter of fact, Vince, I think I've sold a couple bulls for you in the last couple years because we've had some go to hell from customers. They've had some go to hell and we've had to get them replaced in a hurry. Yeah. Alright. So most of these bowls are coming out of your donor cows. Joe Fisher had some clarions, and you got some clarions. I do. Some of Joe's best bulls were the clarions. I'm really looking forward to seeing this group that you got going on. Talk about these three that you got coming.
SPEAKER_01One, I think he's I don't even know what lot is. Just don't tell me one of them's out already. No, one I'm keeping a third interest in. Okay. That's the 40. Yeah, lot 40. I'm keeping a lot, I'm keeping a third interest in him. I didn't get that in the book.
SPEAKER_02So is a third interest is that. It's just semen. Just semen interest. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Not that I think he's going to sell a pile of semen or anything. I just want to get semen on him and own part of it.
SPEAKER_02You you want semen, right?
SPEAKER_01I want semen. And if and it depends on who buys him, you know, what we do with him. But um Are you going to collect him for yourself? I'm going to wait till after the sale. Last year, I collected a couple young bulls before the sale and ended up getting hurt. So I was just going to wait until after the sale and see what the new owner wants to do. And, you know, as long as I have semen before next fall, because I'll already be done breeding before we have our sale, so I won't be able to use them this spring. And then the 41 bull, he's I really struggled with both of those bulls, possibly keeping one of those two bulls, but ended up keeping a different one and putting those two in the sale.
SPEAKER_02Don't screw around with the forty one because I've been trying to pimp him out.
SPEAKER_01Would not stop with his feet right because we tried to picture him. He just kept stopping with his feet backwards every single time.
SPEAKER_02I like his pedigree top and bottom.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think he's gonna be a good bull for someone.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think he will too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I've actually talked about him with a couple breeders. Alright, and then you got this mess of judgments out of this international cow.
SPEAKER_01Dude, that cow that cow in judgment clicked. The females are good, the bulls are good. You know, I just really like them. Judgment will make them really deep. It's crazy how deep judgment will make one. But they uh these the international cow and going back to going back to uh 4136, she she really does bring a lot of power, if that makes sense. She brings a whole lot of power, and she really clicked with judgment. I mean, like I said, I like them all. The heifers, the bulls. I've got two different age bulls in there, and I like the older one and I like the younger ones.
SPEAKER_02International, he puts a little frame in them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, and these bulls are not little, but they're not huge. I think they're just about right. I don't know, we'll see. Should be really good footed. Yeah, they were pretty good footed. Good. Uh I liked it. Last time I saw 'em, I really liked them.
SPEAKER_02When's the last time you saw 'em?
SPEAKER_01The the feet. Last time I saw the feet, I really liked them. Okay. I I see them every day and I really like the bulls. I'm just saying the last time I saw their feet, I really liked them.
SPEAKER_02How do you finish these bulls out?
SPEAKER_01Very slowly. Yeah. We make it here. We actually make all our feed.
SPEAKER_02Is it secret feed or something?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, super, super top secret.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Oats.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Fescue.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Oak oatscue clubs. Corn oats and the deal that we get from Ogle Feed. That's developed by Buck Chestane. And it's just kind of a slow growth deal. Try not to push them too hard too fast.
SPEAKER_02What's your ADG? What's your ADG? Well, what are you shooting for?
SPEAKER_01Whatever Buck tells me.
SPEAKER_02Three pounds?
SPEAKER_01No. No. No.
SPEAKER_02Two?
SPEAKER_01No, I slowed them down too much on the older bulls. The the younger bulls I got right on track. They're probably around two and a half to three on the younger bulls. The older bulls, I really had them on all summer. I was really pushing them to be more grass. So, you know, the one thing it did, it didn't get me very impressive weights, but it did keep them, you know, from getting a lot of fat and or scroed them and getting a lot of feet issues and getting a lot of just overall issues, you know, too heavy front ends and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02So they won't go home and just fall apart?
SPEAKER_01I hope not. I hope they're gonna be hard, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. What about this lot sixty-two bowl? That's the converse sun.
SPEAKER_01You know, he's cool. He's really cool.
SPEAKER_02I think he's cool.
SPEAKER_01I actually went back and used him just a little more. I I didn't use him a whole lot. He uh he just kind of kept kept hanging around, you know what I mean? Like he just he did his part at weaning and and he was put together well. He had the look and he kept growing and his his feet were good and we just kept trying, you know, kept seeing how he was gonna go. And he's uh he's actually a really nice bull. I really like Converse. I think he did a good job. I need I need to probably should use more of him. But I tried to use him when he first came out, but Brent was telling me that when Gen X picked him up, he was just young and he wasn't making much semen or any semen, and he ended up having to turn him out with a bunch of cows. And when he brought him back in, he had he was making all kinds of semen, and Gen X was like, well, we've we've moved on from him. So it was just one of those deals, you know.
SPEAKER_02It's funny how they just do that, they just kind of roll on. Yeah. And then and then they went out and bought interest into that spickler right time that's eight years old now.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. So prove out your own stuff. Right. Maybe.
SPEAKER_01That's right.
SPEAKER_02Now you got a couple of these pretty suspect sire choice here. This brewing torque. You got these Shadowbrook Torques.
SPEAKER_01Well, they're I will say this. I like them a lot. I actually the one I kept one, he's not in the cell, but the the other brothers are in the cell.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01I had a I had a slew of them.
SPEAKER_02Did you get any daughters out of that flight?
SPEAKER_01No. No? No. I was so mad.
SPEAKER_02Dang.
SPEAKER_01I was trying so hard to get a daughter, and I actually I think I put them in two different times, and the same thing with that canoe thunderbolt, I put those eggs in two different times, and I never got a daughter.
SPEAKER_02I got a guy that's kind of eyeballing those torques.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_02So tell us a little bit about that damn.
SPEAKER_01Oh man.
SPEAKER_02And and Vince Santini is a little bit known for the Dawn.
SPEAKER_01She's done me a great job. Honestly. She has done a fantastic job. And I mean, there's some there's some stuff in the sale out of her this year again. Every year I I have try to have a little something out of her, and she just continues to try to top the sale every year, or she's right there at the top if she didn't top it. But she does a she does a really good job. You know, I I had a few things in the very beginning that didn't quite turn out like I thought they should have, but the more I kind of went into it, I'm really just keep liking everything I get. And now one of the best things she ever crossed with was bloodline. And the first year I ended up putting one in the sale, and Meaden over at Bucksnort bought her, and then so I wanted one, so I put some more eggs in and got me another daughter. Well, I ended up putting her in the sale last year, and then ZWT and Voss bought her. So now I guess I'm gonna have to put another one, I don't know, but put some more eggs in, I don't know. But I ended up doing her the blue blood, which would be, you know, he's a bloodline son, and those are on the ground now, so we'll see. Those are actually gonna be pretty cool to have the the the females and the bulls.
SPEAKER_02So how big is she? Is she a typical Donna where I can I can actually look over?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, she's not gonna be huge. Five ram? Um probably yeah, probably five, a little over maybe. A lot of a lot of body. Yeah, lots of body. Yeah, you like your ladies thick. I do. I do like them thick.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like them thick.
SPEAKER_01Is she the only Donna you ever? I actually have one that we sold half interest in last year that Triple H out of Kentucky bought. I'd bought her as an egg as some embryos, and I didn't give her a whole lot of thought uh until probably a year or two ago. So she would be a resource out of one, two, three, four at Coleman's, and she is a EXT 714. So that cow is man, she's killing it right now.
SPEAKER_02How did you get into the Donna's? Did you go up there and take a look at 'em?
SPEAKER_01Uh no. No. No. Just bought one. Yeah, we just we just started kind of buying some. And like I said, I bought that. I bought though the embryos that made 8055 long before I owned 7100.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01Anyway, they uh they've done me a good job. I can't complain about them.
SPEAKER_02What about these Henriettas? You're known for Henriettas. The Henriettas?
SPEAKER_01The Henriettas have done a good job as well. Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02They came out of Sits.
SPEAKER_01They did. They did, yeah. Correct.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. How'd you end up with those?
SPEAKER_01Um, so years ago, Dad would have bought Dad and KMK, Leon Heron would have bought a cow Sitz Henrietta Pride 501. And then, of course, when we dispersed, we didn't have any more. But they had sold, Sitz had sold the pick of the heifer crop, and that would have probably been around 01. I think that's right. Anyway, the whoever bought it, I think it was Falcon Seaboard ended up buying it. They gave like a little over a hundred thousand for it.
SPEAKER_03Jeez.
SPEAKER_01Um, but they sold it through the foundation deal at Denver, you know, all that money went to the foundation and all that. Um, and they picked 1510. Well, 1510 mosied around, and she ended up at Jocko Valley in one of his dispersals. I think he's actually had more dispersals than we have.
SPEAKER_02I think so.
SPEAKER_01Um there on the ninth. She ended up there, and we actually bought her as a 10-year-old cow and brought her here, and she was a 124 out of 501. So we kind of got back into the Henriettas with her. And actually, probably one of the best cows we ever owned or raised was uh was a predominant out of her, and she resides at Bucksnort right now, 1535, and she's she's 14 years old and nursing a calf. Dang. I mean, she does a good job.
SPEAKER_02Keep her going. Yeah. And then and then you also kind of known for having some intense.
SPEAKER_01Yes, Ever Elda Intense. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, then did you shorten up the name to Intense, or do you got full full monster?
SPEAKER_01No, I do Ever Elda. Yeah, I I did intense on some of them, and then I realized I probably should have just did Ever Elda, so I switched it.
SPEAKER_02Do these come from Sits or do they come from a different No, no, no.
SPEAKER_01They go back to Sitz. Oh, okay. Um like we've got one now that I guess when we were gathering stuff up. Do you remember? This might have been before your time. Do you remember? Golly. My mind just went blank. The COVID brain got me.
SPEAKER_02Old timers.
SPEAKER_01Um goodness. Mike Marlowe was a manager there.
SPEAKER_02I don't was it Duff?
SPEAKER_01No. No, no. It was in Oak Perkins, Oklahoma. Anyway, I'll remember it in a minute. Anyway, they own 491G, uh, which we raised and sold years and years and years ago. Shady Brook Ever Elden Tents. But anyway, so we bought a Midland 491G from them. And actually they didn't even raise her. She had a she had a stinking Kentucky prefix. I can't remember the name of the place in Kentucky. But she uh she ended up that's how we got back in the Everell Intense business. And then we had found a actually a little two 1137 daughters throughout the years when we started back. I don't have any of them anymore, any of the offspring of them, but we tried to get them back going, you know.
SPEAKER_02I think the Intense thing where they where a farm dropped off the Everelda started at three trees. I think they had that famous cow that that they called Three Trees Intense. Can't remember the numbers, but I think that's where the dropping off the Everelta started.
SPEAKER_01You're talking about them going downhill or what?
SPEAKER_02That was a cow that was really prolific.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And they shortened her name, made it into the Oh, oh, oh, oh, I got you. That was the first cow, I I believe, that was ever was an Ever Elda Intense, but they chopped it in the city.
SPEAKER_01Well, what chopped it off was the Angus Association only gives you so many letters. Was that it? Yeah, Shady Brook and Three Trees have too many letters where Sitz is only four, you know.
SPEAKER_02Got it. Got it.
SPEAKER_01So you gotta shorten it up. Some some people put ever intense.
SPEAKER_02Ever intense. Got it. Shorten Ever Elder, but Hey, I just got a history lesson.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I didn't realize that. That's why three trees did that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Before I move on to some other things here, are there any other bulls that you want to discuss that you got coming?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I mean, they're they're all pretty nice, if I'm being honest. And I don't I don't say that lightly. They've just all the ones that are still around have clicked or are hanging around. You know, like there's a couple of them that people may look at, well, that thing's not very thick or whatever, but you know, if it's a heifer bull, you know, and somebody's gonna use it to get some heifer's bread, he probably don't need to be super thick. But no, for the most part, we've really just culled through them and and gotten them where they need to be and tried to get them slowly and not burn them up and not push them too hard. So, you know.
SPEAKER_02That converse would be a great heifer bull.
SPEAKER_01He's a good bull. He really is a good bull. He'd be a good heifer bull. He's one of those bulls that when you drive out there, you're like, oh, who's that guy? You know, and you drive over there and it's him every time.
SPEAKER_02Are there any cows that we should take of note? I know you got some partners in the cell. You got sweet gum. Yep. Sweetgum, he's Upchurch Brothers. Upchurch Brothers, the legit owners of Bruin Torque.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they are the founders.
SPEAKER_02Legit owners, yes. Yeah. They found him. If it hadn't been for them, that bull probably never been discovered.
SPEAKER_01Maybe, maybe not. Who knows? I believe that. No, we just try to put a good set of cows together.
SPEAKER_02It looks like it, yeah. Um got some young ones, got some old ones.
SPEAKER_01Got some young ones, got some old ones. I always try to sell, you know, six-year-olds because that gives me time to weed through problems. Yeah. And, you know, if they're still around by the time they're six, then they've jumped through a whole lot of hoops, you know. So I feel like by then they can go out and do a good job for somebody. That's a good set. I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_02You always have a good set of cows there, yeah. And uh, you you sell some young ones, you'll you'll split off some of those seven-month-olds. Yeah. And they'll go on their own. Yep. Yep. Even bowls. Even bowls.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Then we're gonna move on a little bit to the last topic there.
SPEAKER_01Vince, you ready? I guess. I'm a little nervous.
SPEAKER_02You have a couple bowls that you you sell semen on. Yeah. The thief first being, which you mentioned a couple times, ZWT Blue Blood. Yeah. How'd you get hooked up with that bowl?
SPEAKER_01You know, I needed a herd bull, and I'm good friends with the Mays family. And, you know, I want to do business with folks in Tennessee. I wanted him to be raised in a similar environment. I didn't want him coming all the way across the country to, you know, environmental shock. And I was just kind of wait till you hear what about the next one. Yeah, you want to talk about environmental shock. But, you know, I I needed a bull and I needed a good bull. I didn't really anticipate or buy him because I thought we would sell a lot of semen on him or anything like that. It did work out that Breeder Link picked him up and they've moved a little bit of semen on him. And I I tell you, I really, really, really like my calves. This this next set that we're getting ready to wean are freaking awesome out of him.
SPEAKER_02He's a bloodline son. Yeah, out of the rose. Out of the rose. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't just skip over that cow. Yeah. That's a pretty darn good cow.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That Rose 918 cow. She's a good cow.
SPEAKER_02That's not her only prolific son.
SPEAKER_01No. And I'll and that was another thing that drew me towards him was the cow. And and then I was I was kind of back and forth about it. And then when I went up there and I saw him, I was like, I think this is the one, you know.
SPEAKER_02And that cow is the damn to Brooke and Banknote.
SPEAKER_01Oh, really? Isn't that?
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. That's Brooklyn Banknote.
SPEAKER_01I just know that I really like him.
SPEAKER_02Great cow. Alright, so since you're not in shock, yeah. You know, you don't want to drag your animal across the country. So this next bull is a little dear to my heart. I've used him in my own program. We're going to talk about a bull that had to travel all the way from Northern California all the way to Tennessee. Bruin Legion, a salve anthem son out of Joe Fisher's great blackbird 9243 cow. You've heard this before. Here's my views on that bull. I saw him at your sale last year. Yeah. And I kind of been bantering about using him a little bit. And um, when you see that bull in the flesh, are you gonna have him there this year?
SPEAKER_01I don't think so. I'm not sure. No? I'm not sure. He's at stud now.
SPEAKER_02Oh, he's here at cottage?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah, he's over cottage. He's just down the road. Yeah, he's over cottage. And go say, Yeah, go smack him.
SPEAKER_02I might drag Winbush up there to go take a look at it. Go for it. And then he can pick up his semen while. There you go. Looking at the bull last year when I got to see him in the flesh out at your place, he's a lot taller than what you're gonna think for a Bruin bowl. Yeah, me too. He's just a lot more frame, a lot more depth of body, a little more rib than what I've normally have seen from Bruin. But his base width and top width weren't what you would kind of imagine from Bruin. I'm just gonna say that's not a big downfall. Not like he's he's narrow, he's not pinched, right? He's not a he's not a small bull in that sense. He just isn't as bassy as what you see normally from Joe.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02But that depth, the depth in his rib was was surprising to see. That was what really intrigued me because I have the cows that could pull that off. But the progeny have on the ground do not follow what that bull looks like.
SPEAKER_00They blow him away.
SPEAKER_02Lots of base, lots of top width, while still maintaining that that depth. Yeah. They still have that depth above the spring of rib. I was so impressed with him. I I stuck him in the majority of my herd this year.
SPEAKER_03Nice.
SPEAKER_02Just a flat out knockdown good bull. And now that I glowed about him, I need to send Joe Fisher an invoice. I need a bill for this kind of stuff. Anyways, you your thoughts on your bull?
SPEAKER_01Well, I tell you, he was uh he was kind of intriguing to me. And a friend of mine, Josh King over at Circle K in uh Petersburg, he he called me one night and he's like, I'm looking at I'm gonna get I need a bull, and I said, Well, Joe's fixing to have a sale. And he said, What do you think? I said, Well, I think you need to call Joe because he'll shoot you straight. And uh he did, and Joe and I talked about what we thought would work best for for him and his environment and whatnot, and it ended up being Legion. Well, he gets him bought, and then he calls me and he says, Hey, do you want to be in on this bull? And I said, Well, let me think about that. And then when I saw him, I was definitely in on him. His feet were great. I loved his hip, his depth, his depth of flank. Like you say, he wasn't really pinched, but he wasn't s you know, just super wide. He moved great. It wasn't one of those things that you know, he was just super extreme somewhere, and then he couldn't walk because he was so extreme or whatever, like we see a lot, you know.
SPEAKER_02He's a very well-balanced bull in NFL.
SPEAKER_01Yes, very well-balanced bull. And then so I was like, yeah, I'm in. I'm in. And we took him, got him collected, AI'd to him, walked him, and then he left here when we were done and went over to Circle K to breed cows too. So with that said, that was a little bit of a different circumstance, and I was I was good. I was really surprised how slick he is. Um because he is a he is a fairly slick haired bull. And I and I think that's something we gotta pay attention to here where we're at. Yeah, we do. So yeah, he I and now that I've got my first set of calves, I'm getting ready to wean. I mean, they're they're really, really nice.
SPEAKER_02What do you think of the daughters? I don't have any daughters, what do they look like?
SPEAKER_01Um they look a lot like the bulls. I mean, honestly, they're they're they have kind of a nice look to them. Of course, you know, they all got that baby calf hair on them right now. Um but they're the the one that comes to mind, she's she's deep-bodied, deep flanked, just you know, nice fronted. I wouldn't say super extreme fronted, but just nice fronted. Just you know, yeah, they're they're they're really nice calves. I will definitely be using him heavier this spring. I used him in the fall too, but I mean I'll definitely, now that I've seen how they're gonna kind of grow out some, I'm gonna use them harder.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I might have to when I go up there to go see him next week, I'll have to grab another cane.
SPEAKER_01Well, just let me know and I'll tell them.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna have to grab a cane. Or I'll just take Thomas's and he's never gonna use it.
SPEAKER_01He never uses it. He's too big, he's too busy building a barn, ain't he?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, building barns too. Yeah, he's gotta build a second one.
SPEAKER_01Did you insure the you insuring him or what? Thank goodness, no. That poor guy. No. If it wasn't for bad luck, he wouldn't have any luck.
SPEAKER_02Thomas right now will give everybody his business. But poor Thomas Winbush here, he's he's a neighbor of mine, a friend, a good friend of mine. And actually, we talked before the show and he said, give Vince my best eight, tell him hi. So there you go, Vince. Hi. Anyways, poor Thomas, his barn burnt down in June, or might have been May. I think his barn burned down in May. Burned down everything. Tractor, baler, barn. I mean, just wiped him out. And then in January, we had that ice storm. They built a brand new barn, got a new tractor, got a new baler. The whole works of the barn looks good. It's a nice barn, brand new. And we had that ice storm and the entire barn collapsed.
SPEAKER_01It was so bad.
SPEAKER_02On on top of the tractor, bayler. It's terrible. All of his equipment. I called him up and said it. Hey, hey Thomas, have you this is one of the funniest things I've ever heard in my life. I said, Hey Thomas, because it took down another tractor, too. And I said, you know, just a thought. Maybe you should start parking your equipment in separate barns. And he says to me, like right off the guy, he says, What, you want my other barn to go down too?
SPEAKER_01That poor guy.
SPEAKER_02If it wasn't for bad luck, no luck at all. I'm telling you. Yeah, no luck at all. Man, yeah. Just a crappy deal. And on this last barn, that company that built those barns out here, they've been building a lot of barns out here for the last two, three years. About 20 of them went down.
SPEAKER_01No kidding.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's a defense.
SPEAKER_01Are they still in business?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and they're still advertising too. I ask them questions like, hey, on a 60-foot span, will it still maintain after four inches of snow? And they keep deleting my comments. Well, I just want to know. All these other barns went down. Yeah, that was a horrible deal for a lot of people, but it was only four based four inches of snow and maybe an inch of ice. These barns should have handled it. Right. So let's wrap this thing up. So how can people get your catalog right now?
SPEAKER_01They should be in the mail. If you didn't receive one and want to receive one, you can go to our website shadybrookangus.com and request one there. You can go to Angus Association deal and request one there. You can find me on Facebook. You can find my number. Text me, message me, any way, shape, or form.
SPEAKER_02There you go. And then to see the sale if they can't get there in person.
SPEAKER_01CCI, and actually, I think you can request a book from there as well.
SPEAKER_02See the catalog on there. You see the catalog on there, and you'll be able to see the video lots as well ahead of time. Um contact you. Yes. And then rumor has it. Oh boy. Rumor has it. You're going to have a special guest. Oh, am I? Yeah. Who is this? Isn't it none other than Joe Fisher? We'll have to see. We'll have to see. What do you mean? We'll have to see. Well, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01How do you know he's going to make it? Well, that's the same thing. I was talking to him today and he had to go because his heifers were out.
SPEAKER_03Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then he he called me back like 10 minutes later. He said, They were they were 50 feet from the highway. Well, why'd you leave the gate open, Joe? Shut the gate.
SPEAKER_02He he says he's coming. He tried to give me his whole itinerary, and I said, Joe, you know, Tennessee isn't like the size of Delaware.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, he's gonna he's gonna spend a day driving everywhere he goes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he's like, I'm gonna go here, I'm gonna go here, I'm gonna go there, we'll go your place, and I'm like, no, no. We'll have to break that up a little bit. Uh yeah. So anyway, so if people want to come see Joe Fisher and in the flesh, they can come to yourself.
SPEAKER_01And I don't know if Corbin's coming or not, but we the the whole trio could be there.
SPEAKER_02I so I'm gonna be there. Well I think I think the rule is only three podcasters at one time. Okay. Only three. So we have to figure out who we're dropping out.
SPEAKER_01Well, I don't know. What if we just made an exception? And all the time. I don't know. I don't think you can do that.
SPEAKER_02I don't think you make that ex I don't think you make an exception. That's the reason I couldn't go to the Tennessee field day.
SPEAKER_00You know, now, listen, that was such an awesome day that nobody wants to host the next one. Nobody wants to host the next one. No, nobody wants to follow ZWT because they knocked it out of the park.
SPEAKER_02Really?
SPEAKER_01Oh, dude, that was I've been to a lot of them, and that was one of the best ones I've ever been to.
SPEAKER_02That's what you were telling me. Actually, everybody told me it was a great one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was pretty awesome.
SPEAKER_02But you didn't even participate. You were just giving me a chance. I was given tours.
SPEAKER_01I didn't get a chance. Yeah, I asked Will. Will's a good friend of mine. I was like, look, what can I do to help? And he said, I need you to give tours. And I was like, Are you kidding me? He was like, So, yeah, I was giving people tours.
SPEAKER_02Well, I went to, I've only been to one field day so far here in Tennessee.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I'm not sure why it's always got to be in the hottest day of August that they decide to put in the street.
SPEAKER_01They do it before all the sales start.
SPEAKER_02I know, so they do the field day, and I so I went to the McWater one. Oh gosh. I was like dying of heat stroke after about an hour. They didn't have any beer, and it was just not hot, it was just hot. Sticky mess.
SPEAKER_01I told uh Nate, my son, the other day, we were working cows, and I told him and Blake, I said, Well, we're hosting the field day. And I mean, I thought you you could just see Nate's soul leave his body. He was like, No, we're not. No, we're not. Well, I forgot to tell him any different, and today we're riding down the road, we had to run to Lawrenceburg. He was like, Are we really hosting field days? I said, No, we're not hosting field days.
SPEAKER_02We're not doing it are you up in your game this year for the sale? For what? Well, you know, the brew and ranch sale, uh, I forgot what they call that genetic something sale. No, no, I'm talking about Joe's sale. He has an adult beverage trailer.
SPEAKER_01Oh.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's a stock trailer. Yeah. That's been converted into a mobile bar.
SPEAKER_01Back in the day, we used to have a full-blown bar in the back corner of the barn.
SPEAKER_02People bid higher.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I grew up and opened everything.
SPEAKER_02I grew up in the in the dairy industry where they always lube them up on a registered sale. Oh, yeah, I gotta get them get them lubed up. That's probably why Joe hit that $13,000.
SPEAKER_01I'm sure it is. Maybe that's what we need to do. That's a good idea.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he opened that the sale didn't start till like I think two, and he opened that up at eleven in the morning. It was going good. Yeah, it was going good. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You open it too early, people will be passed out before the sale starts.
SPEAKER_02That's why he he started out with the McLob Ultra. Oh, okay. They didn't get out the real beer until about two o'clock.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. According to Landman, that's non-alcoholic.
SPEAKER_02It's very true. I agree with him. I did not know moving here, you know, because I moved out here from the land of milk and honey. So the best beer in the United States, I don't care what California say, the best beer in the United States is from the Northwest. Is it? And it is phenomenal beer. And I come out here and find out the the the beer of T s of Tennessee is Michelob Ultra.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It is everybody drinks Michelob Ultra.
SPEAKER_01Well, it could be worse, it could be Miller Light.
SPEAKER_02It actually might be a step up. But it is the it is the disdain of my life of moving here and there's no quality beer. And did I tell you I moved to a quasi-dry county? Well, how far you gotta go? You can get beer at most places at a convenience store. Not a grocery store. You have to go to a convenience store to get beer. But you cannot get one with your meal.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's what, dude, we you couldn't even get it at a store for until probably I don't know. Well, no, liquor. You couldn't get liquor. Hard liquor, you could get beer until like they just approved that like maybe ten years ago.
SPEAKER_02Well, there's there's another story for me. So 2018, my wife's family is here. Yeah. And in 2018, we loaded up the kids, drove cross-country, wanted to commit suicide by the time we hit the river with five kids in tow. And when we landed here, it was a Sunday. We stopped at Grandma's house, got the kids out, and said, I really, really need a beer. I too bad. It's either I'm gonna either I'm gonna kill some people or I I need a beer. And Grandma didn't say anything to me, so I just wandered off to the pig, piggly wiggly, go over there, and I'm walk wandering the aisles, can't find the beer, no coolers, nothing. Finally I asked the lady and she looked at me like I was raving stupid. And she's oh no, you can't get a beer on a Sunday here in West Tennessee. No. So I rolled across to the convenience store because I didn't believe her, even though she'd lived here. I'd only been here for two hours and she had lived her entire life. I didn't believe her. So I wandered over to the convenience store right across the road. And they tell me, No, no, but you can go to the liquor store. I said, So the liquor stores open on Sunday. And she said, Yeah, the liquor stores open on Sunday. And I stood there with a puzzled look, and she goes, Well, are you gonna go over there? And I said, So you're telling me I can wander over to the liquor store and get a fifth of bourbon, but I can't but buy beer from the convenience store. And she said, Exactly right. I never heard such things in my life.
SPEAKER_01Oh my goodness. Welcome to Tennessee, baby.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, welcome to Tennessee. If we want to go to an Italian restaurant here, we don't have one in town, but if we did have one in town, we couldn't get the dinner and wine.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's that's crap, but it kind of is what it is.
SPEAKER_02But you guys can over there, right? You're your county?
SPEAKER_01Yes, now. I mean, like I said, they changed that. We we finally got liquor, and then they changed the liquor by the drink. Yeah, liquor by the drink a few years later.
SPEAKER_02They ran an election here about two years ago to to do liquor by the drink, and and it failed by like two votes.
SPEAKER_01No kidding.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, by two votes. Anyways, Thomas Wimbush and I were talking about it. Thomas kind of into the local politics around here, and I told him, I said, hey, next time that comes up, just get with me. I'll get with some of my Democrat friends from Washington, and we'll get that thing, we'll get that thing passed. Now, there may be more votes than people in the county for it, but we'll get that. Oh, they sure do. They find missing ballots at 2 a.m. in the back of a trunk of a car. Oh my goodness. All right, sir. Well, you got anything else to say before we go?
SPEAKER_01Uh no, I guess just thank you for having me, and everybody's welcome to the sale. And if you have any questions, let me know. I'll be glad to answer.
SPEAKER_02We've been trying to put this together for two years.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then I thought it was over. I cried.
SPEAKER_02I you didn't cried, I cried, I cried.
SPEAKER_01You were you weren't doing it, and the next thing you know, Jason Meaden was on here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you're at you're like yakklys out.
SPEAKER_01I cried.
SPEAKER_02Finally, we're gonna finally we're gonna get some listeners.
SPEAKER_01Whatever will we do.
SPEAKER_02You guys were thinking to yourselves you'll finally get some listeners over there on your podcast.
SPEAKER_01That's exactly what it was. We were we were having a party, yeah. Oh my gosh. All right, sir. Well, hey, thank you very much. I I really appreciate you having me.
SPEAKER_02That was funny.